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GeorgeWest
2944 posts
and
16 followers
in almost 2 years
in almost 2 years
Lets talk about LASERS
Hi all
Gonna start off saying I am the noobiest noob when it comes to lasers, and or the burning or etching of wood to embellish a woodworking project. However in ever growing numbers I am seeing more people using them here, and online, so I think maybe it's something that is either, or about to outpace Turning (the new evil as I call it) or CNC. Though all 3 have substantial growth I am mostly looking at Laser, so laser this thread be.
I know Bruce (Splint, Splintergroup) has recently been dabbling with one, and now a post from Jim Jakosh about making some feet for his brand new laser. Also more recently as the world clock ticks,, RyanGi, and several others who post here have added them to their arsenal. Please forgive me for not being able to quickly remember names, but in our rather small world here we seem to have growth.
Anything about them. Machine, type, and deals. Seems like recent illness kept me off the fence about very low dollar units Ortur?? that were being sold for peanuts. Stands seem important. Are there other consumables? I know Keebs and his plastic spinners use a lot of ??Thread?? Is something used with the lasers, or just adding ground rocks or whatever an embellishment on the burning?
Software seems a biggie, is there a standard? Types reason for learning them, costs, whatever.
I think at least for me is how to determine which machine to look at versus how big is the actual work area. Same thing with a CNC, but here is there a bring a tool to the work thing like the Shaper Origin, or a Domino, or are they all a stand based piece of equipment like with most CNC's. BTW I do know a Domino doesn't lase or CNC, but it is probably the most illustrious hand held tool going, so threw it out from that perspective. Plus I have one, and am still after 3 years of ownership learning something new each time I use it.
I'm sure others have different questions than I have listed here. Post them up..
Those of you with machines are there things you would have done differently if you knew then, what you have since figured out?
Virtually anything laser and wood, please talk about it here.
Gonna start off saying I am the noobiest noob when it comes to lasers, and or the burning or etching of wood to embellish a woodworking project. However in ever growing numbers I am seeing more people using them here, and online, so I think maybe it's something that is either, or about to outpace Turning (the new evil as I call it) or CNC. Though all 3 have substantial growth I am mostly looking at Laser, so laser this thread be.
I know Bruce (Splint, Splintergroup) has recently been dabbling with one, and now a post from Jim Jakosh about making some feet for his brand new laser. Also more recently as the world clock ticks,, RyanGi, and several others who post here have added them to their arsenal. Please forgive me for not being able to quickly remember names, but in our rather small world here we seem to have growth.
Anything about them. Machine, type, and deals. Seems like recent illness kept me off the fence about very low dollar units Ortur?? that were being sold for peanuts. Stands seem important. Are there other consumables? I know Keebs and his plastic spinners use a lot of ??Thread?? Is something used with the lasers, or just adding ground rocks or whatever an embellishment on the burning?
Software seems a biggie, is there a standard? Types reason for learning them, costs, whatever.
I think at least for me is how to determine which machine to look at versus how big is the actual work area. Same thing with a CNC, but here is there a bring a tool to the work thing like the Shaper Origin, or a Domino, or are they all a stand based piece of equipment like with most CNC's. BTW I do know a Domino doesn't lase or CNC, but it is probably the most illustrious hand held tool going, so threw it out from that perspective. Plus I have one, and am still after 3 years of ownership learning something new each time I use it.
I'm sure others have different questions than I have listed here. Post them up..
Those of you with machines are there things you would have done differently if you knew then, what you have since figured out?
Virtually anything laser and wood, please talk about it here.
43 Replies
Oh well, or maybe not?
Like talking about water wells, it's a deep subject!
Stuff will come I'm sure. Was thinking about finding some articles that can provide good, basic info on setting up. Wayyy to much to consider writing up something original.
With lasers, they are evolving so fast that keeping up with the brands, deals, and features is nearly impossible.
Some things stay the same, customer support, software support, and finding user groups for peer support.
Some useful places to check out:
For basic lasers, the top-dog on software appears to be LightBurn
Inexpensive and super flexible.
A decent user forum as well that is quite active with the developers present to answer questions.
For another user group with some good "tools" for setting up a machine and general discussion I like LA Hobby Guy but there are quite a few.
Stuff will come I'm sure. Was thinking about finding some articles that can provide good, basic info on setting up. Wayyy to much to consider writing up something original.
With lasers, they are evolving so fast that keeping up with the brands, deals, and features is nearly impossible.
Some things stay the same, customer support, software support, and finding user groups for peer support.
Some useful places to check out:
For basic lasers, the top-dog on software appears to be LightBurn
Inexpensive and super flexible.
A decent user forum as well that is quite active with the developers present to answer questions.
For another user group with some good "tools" for setting up a machine and general discussion I like LA Hobby Guy but there are quite a few.
LightBurn has separate licenses for GCode, DSP, and Galvo. I have the GCode I use for the xTool P2 that I paid $60 for. If I wanted to add DSP it's another $60. Galvo is anther $90. If you want any one license, the GCode is $60, DSP is $120 and Galvo is $150.
In other words, LightBurn is a great choice, but you might want to settle on a machine before you buy the software, so you don't pay for a license you don't use.
Also the xTool software is pretty powerful, and comes free with your laser.
In other words, LightBurn is a great choice, but you might want to settle on a machine before you buy the software, so you don't pay for a license you don't use.
Also the xTool software is pretty powerful, and comes free with your laser.
Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner
Yes, with the LB GCode license you get one year of updates, then your updates are frozen, but you can continue to run it at any version up to the latest available during your subscription period.
After that, if you renew 30 days prior to the expiration, you get and added month onto the next year and renewals are $30/year.
These licenses are good for running on two computers and you are not tied to any particular laser that runs the same OS (GRBL, ruida, Galvo, etc.)
After that, if you renew 30 days prior to the expiration, you get and added month onto the next year and renewals are $30/year.
These licenses are good for running on two computers and you are not tied to any particular laser that runs the same OS (GRBL, ruida, Galvo, etc.)
I don't believe that the GCode license will allow you to burn with a Galvo laser. That's an extra $90 over GCode, or $150 if you buy the Galvo license alone).
Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner
Yeah, you are stuck with a single protocol. It seems to me most diode lasers are GRBL (I had wrongly wrote GCode)
and you don't really see the ruida until you get into the CO2s
Some lasers, like some xtool models have proprietary interfaces with only limited 3rd party software support.
and you don't really see the ruida until you get into the CO2s
Some lasers, like some xtool models have proprietary interfaces with only limited 3rd party software support.
I rarely use LB with the P2. The main reason is that it doesn't support the camera, and that makes it so easy to place the cut. The design is superimposed over the image of the workpiece, so you can nudge it around.
They just released the new version of their maker software. It's a substantial upgrade and I haven't had time to dig in. The bottom line is, if you buy an xTool product, check out their free app before you spend money elsewhere. It might be all you need.
They just released the new version of their maker software. It's a substantial upgrade and I haven't had time to dig in. The bottom line is, if you buy an xTool product, check out their free app before you spend money elsewhere. It might be all you need.
Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner
Maybe the only thing I have picked up, and have seen it a lot that Lighburn was the much better software.
I think I am mostly split between do I want to start really low cost, maybe 5 watts, and just see how far I can go with the freebie GRBL. Or do I want to get more power, and just use the Lightburn right away. With all of the jewelry, and baskets my Wife does, there is a lot of possible application, plus for me I really am mostly interested in doing Shaker Trees, and Celtic Crosses to pop onto box tops, and such. Of course I have to get feeling well enough to get into the shop, but I am hopeful this just happened today.
I'll figure to do the low entry thing, and then trying to follow all of the links and articles, just to find what is written about as really low cost, is now over a grand, or it has simply fallen off Earth, and no sign of it is available.
I guess the rapid growth is to blame somewhat, but I mostly blame all of these dodgy azz search engines. I assign any search like this with "as of 4/5/2024", and still just get a ton of chit from 2019, or so.
So finding articles, reviews, and actual info from the makers seems to exist in several time periods at once.
Rich, you mention Xtool, and a few of their machines do have features that sound like they would be must haves, but of all the makers I think maybe they are worst on having the same machine (at least by name) as what is being sold, but in several different timelines. It's like they have never withdrawn ANYTHING they have ever put out, even after they quit making a model. So for me, they have been the King and Queen of confusion. I am just not sure about sending them $$$$$ to find I paid todays price for a model that is scheduled for extinction. Or I could get it for 1/2 what I paid?
I think maybe I need to hit the local WoodCraft. A while back I was all go on getting a CNC. Went up there a few Thursday nights when they had CNC meetings. I was the only guy there who didn't own one, and all of them were mostly lusting for something to do, to offset their cost. I never did buy one, and just call one of the guys, and have them do the work for me. It's worked out great. They happy, I'm ecstatic. If they have something going like that for Laser I can get hands on, and figure better if I wanna be the doer, or the customer. All I know is I was looking at spending 4K or better, and after having something like 80 pieces made for me, I don't think I am out 200 bux yet, plus me giving them wood to do the work on, but that is hardly cost associated with getting a CNC.
I think I am mostly split between do I want to start really low cost, maybe 5 watts, and just see how far I can go with the freebie GRBL. Or do I want to get more power, and just use the Lightburn right away. With all of the jewelry, and baskets my Wife does, there is a lot of possible application, plus for me I really am mostly interested in doing Shaker Trees, and Celtic Crosses to pop onto box tops, and such. Of course I have to get feeling well enough to get into the shop, but I am hopeful this just happened today.
I'll figure to do the low entry thing, and then trying to follow all of the links and articles, just to find what is written about as really low cost, is now over a grand, or it has simply fallen off Earth, and no sign of it is available.
I guess the rapid growth is to blame somewhat, but I mostly blame all of these dodgy azz search engines. I assign any search like this with "as of 4/5/2024", and still just get a ton of chit from 2019, or so.
So finding articles, reviews, and actual info from the makers seems to exist in several time periods at once.
Rich, you mention Xtool, and a few of their machines do have features that sound like they would be must haves, but of all the makers I think maybe they are worst on having the same machine (at least by name) as what is being sold, but in several different timelines. It's like they have never withdrawn ANYTHING they have ever put out, even after they quit making a model. So for me, they have been the King and Queen of confusion. I am just not sure about sending them $$$$$ to find I paid todays price for a model that is scheduled for extinction. Or I could get it for 1/2 what I paid?
I think maybe I need to hit the local WoodCraft. A while back I was all go on getting a CNC. Went up there a few Thursday nights when they had CNC meetings. I was the only guy there who didn't own one, and all of them were mostly lusting for something to do, to offset their cost. I never did buy one, and just call one of the guys, and have them do the work for me. It's worked out great. They happy, I'm ecstatic. If they have something going like that for Laser I can get hands on, and figure better if I wanna be the doer, or the customer. All I know is I was looking at spending 4K or better, and after having something like 80 pieces made for me, I don't think I am out 200 bux yet, plus me giving them wood to do the work on, but that is hardly cost associated with getting a CNC.
Thanks guys for chiming in. I'm not what I would call totally puter illiterate, and this has been the toughest searching I have ever done, but likely some of it is because of the fast growth, and frequent changes. I also imagine there are others who see finished work, and muse, gee it would be cool to do that. But like me, not have knowledge, and only getting confusion about what is available today, and at what price.
Lightburn has a great series of YouTube videos that shows how to do almost anything you’d want to do, and pretty simply. It’s a very powerful program.
As for the lasers themselves, man, it’s a big world. The Chinesium stuff is cheap…and hit or miss. I’m still very happy with my Ortur machine, although there are times I’d like a 20W head..mine is the 10W. That said, I do almost entirely decorative stuff, so it works fine for me usually. On softer woods, I could probably carve recesses deep enough to do an epoxy inlay…I haven’t actually tried that. If I was to do it again, I’d go with a US based machine. At least you’d have (likely) better customer service and better QC. You’re gonna pay for it but Buy-Once-Cry-Once.
I can’t comment on the CO2 or other machines, as I’ve got no experience with them. The duckster has long history with CO2 lasers…
Some things to consider:
How big are the projects you want to use the laser on?
Do you intend to do the laser work on piece pre-assembly, or the whole item post?
Are you wanting to cut with the laser? How thick?
What materials do you intend to burn?
How important is speed to you?
Budget?
Answering these questions will help narrow down the field a bit…
I second the support for LA Hobby Guy. Lots of good images/libraries there and a lot of great info in the threads…
As for the lasers themselves, man, it’s a big world. The Chinesium stuff is cheap…and hit or miss. I’m still very happy with my Ortur machine, although there are times I’d like a 20W head..mine is the 10W. That said, I do almost entirely decorative stuff, so it works fine for me usually. On softer woods, I could probably carve recesses deep enough to do an epoxy inlay…I haven’t actually tried that. If I was to do it again, I’d go with a US based machine. At least you’d have (likely) better customer service and better QC. You’re gonna pay for it but Buy-Once-Cry-Once.
I can’t comment on the CO2 or other machines, as I’ve got no experience with them. The duckster has long history with CO2 lasers…
Some things to consider:
How big are the projects you want to use the laser on?
Do you intend to do the laser work on piece pre-assembly, or the whole item post?
Are you wanting to cut with the laser? How thick?
What materials do you intend to burn?
How important is speed to you?
Budget?
Answering these questions will help narrow down the field a bit…
I second the support for LA Hobby Guy. Lots of good images/libraries there and a lot of great info in the threads…
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
Ryan this brings up another point. I have been chasing a few of those 10 best lasers for 2023 kinda pages. I understand if they are getting their bread buttered they will give glowing reviews. But on a few of them, they make a big point in the intro about Asian versus US made lasers, and a bunch of other BS tongue wagging like that. Yet none of them go into country of origin. I still don't have a clue what countries make ANY of these things. Following likely things like contact us, You get several countries on all of them that even have a contact us. Many of the web pages for individual companies have all kinds of useless info about themselves, or their product, but I didn't see any of them saying "MADE IN THE US" or anything like that. I was starting to think references I saw to made in the US were just BS, to get you to buy their Asian made tooling.
I think that’s totally true, it’s all coming from overseas. But, the QC process and support seems to be far better for the domestic companies, from what I’ve read. The Ortur support was clearly overseas, email or chat only, broken (although passable) English, and not much in the way of support.
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
When I bought my Ortur, their support was excellent. Support was with a fellow named GIl and he was excellent in dealing with the factory in China as far as expediting parts, etc.
Something happened with the company a bit later and reportedly the CEO and GIl moved on, but now Gil is very active on the LB forum and seems to still be supporting LB and helping users.
As to country of origin, I think 99% of the laser modules are Chinese, but there are a few US makers, but they are more up towards the industrial side of things and the module price can be 10X more expensive.
The basic machines are all generally the same design, stepper motors, belts, and a number of motherboards, generally designed around a small number of CPUs. Aftermarket controllers are everywhere and make it easy for the more adventurous to build their own system. My particular machine has dropped about 15% in cost since I purchased so the performance/$ ratio is improving.
I'm still well below $1k in total investment and haven't yet tried a project that was beyond the machines capability. Great thing is you can trade off power for speed in most cases.
I think the best thing you could do would be to try one out and get a hands-on experience, versus going in cold.
Something happened with the company a bit later and reportedly the CEO and GIl moved on, but now Gil is very active on the LB forum and seems to still be supporting LB and helping users.
As to country of origin, I think 99% of the laser modules are Chinese, but there are a few US makers, but they are more up towards the industrial side of things and the module price can be 10X more expensive.
The basic machines are all generally the same design, stepper motors, belts, and a number of motherboards, generally designed around a small number of CPUs. Aftermarket controllers are everywhere and make it easy for the more adventurous to build their own system. My particular machine has dropped about 15% in cost since I purchased so the performance/$ ratio is improving.
I'm still well below $1k in total investment and haven't yet tried a project that was beyond the machines capability. Great thing is you can trade off power for speed in most cases.
I think the best thing you could do would be to try one out and get a hands-on experience, versus going in cold.
This all is interesting, and would love to get a small setup for decorative type add-ons to projects, but it seems too complicated to jump in!
It’s really not Barb. The biggest issue is the reliability of the super cheap chinesium lasers. But for small things like makers marks, they work ok. And if all you want to do it small designs and clip art stuff they work ok too. This is the one I started with. Worked fine enough for little stuff.
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
Most every one, even the very cheapest, have phone or tablet apps that let you take a drawing, text, or picture, clean them up and burn.
Even Pottz, the technical prodigy he is, uses his original phone app.
Even Pottz, the technical prodigy he is, uses his original phone app.
Got my new laser mount today, looks good!
A nice way to raise/lower the laser by a knob versus loosening a screw and sliding it up/down.
Probably get it installed this weekend.
A nice way to raise/lower the laser by a knob versus loosening a screw and sliding it up/down.
Probably get it installed this weekend.
They make things pretty easy Splint. 👍🏼
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
this is the one i bought last year. so far it's been great. many things can be done right on your cell phone. i have not done any cutting. mainly i just wanted something to do branding, logos etc. im about as low/no tech as it gets but i was able to make smoke with it 🤣
the nice thing is you can build a stand and raise it up to whatever level you need.
working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.
OK.
Larry what made you buy the NEJE? I think offhand I would not, but it's because of 11 watt. Most of what I have seen is 5, 10, 20, 40, no odd numbers like 11.
Looking at the link for these they bring up another question. Shows an optional "540*850mm Laser Honeycomb" cost is $160.00. So if I don't get a "honeycomb" what is my alternative? Or ultimately do you need something as a base, burn pad, whatever? Also I see many with enclosures, and fans. With my respiratory History I feel like that is a good thing. What do people do if they don't have these? Snort Carcinogens?
Larry what made you buy the NEJE? I think offhand I would not, but it's because of 11 watt. Most of what I have seen is 5, 10, 20, 40, no odd numbers like 11.
Looking at the link for these they bring up another question. Shows an optional "540*850mm Laser Honeycomb" cost is $160.00. So if I don't get a "honeycomb" what is my alternative? Or ultimately do you need something as a base, burn pad, whatever? Also I see many with enclosures, and fans. With my respiratory History I feel like that is a good thing. What do people do if they don't have these? Snort Carcinogens?
