Dust collection

no it wont be cheap if done right , but for your lungs health dont cut corners barb. here is a forum i started awhile back maybe take a look at the comments ? https://craftisian.com/topics/928-dust-collection-of-your-dreams

Pottz - I missed that.  I tried to delete this forum topic but don't see how.  I'll add your link as an edit - no need to recreate!

It IS quite the subject Barb. Usually $$$$$$$ involved do impact the machine you get. For me my needs are likely different than many others, but your particular needs are really one of the most important things to keep in mind.

My circumstance is that I always wear a respirator, either half face, or sometimes a real deal full face respirator, which most would consider a huge PIA. I've worn one so much they don't impact me that way, but their beauty is I don't need a lot of eye protection wearing one, because they to are sealed in. But I also don't need to spend the $$$$ on a HEPA system just to clean up the mess. I'm already well protected, simply by using much cheaper HEPA filters on the mask.

I had been in the market for a secondary, possible primary system, but spending the $$$$$ Oneida wanted was a no fly zone. So like you I was looking real hard at bang versus buck. I recently took 2 days of classes at the local WoodCraft, well December anyhow. Their shop had a 2 HP JET, and it very well served the collection of all the dust from TS, Jointer, Planer, Wide Drum sander, drill press, 2 router tables, and often a lot of hand held tools. At times all are running, and they were stating no problem. I used it, and saw none as well, just very LOUD but in the shop I always wear hearing protection too, so not a huge issue.

At this same time all Rikon tools were 20% off, so based on an almost same as the JET, but more HP and bigger numbers I bought this Rikon. I now have quite a few Rikon tools, most are smaller tools, but I have had excellent customer service when needed, and seems they must believe theirs are solid tools, because they offer a 5 year warranty, which was 4 more than the average. Assembly is/was a huge deal, but it may be with a lot of the bigger systems, seems to be based on what I saw in "taking it out of the box videos" that I watched. I also have a smaller Rikon collector, and it was supposed to be a bigger brother of a shop vac, It's lower/slower like a dust collector, but sized more like a vac. What I have found with it, is it can easily run an entire wall full of smaller tools, like 6" belt sander, oscillating sander, Router X 2, chop saw, drill press, and a lot of hand tools, and not draw a deep breath. It's a monster, and was pretty cheap. Usually those tools are one at a time, but more frequently now my Wife is back there too, and often we are at 2 or more at a time, no worries. 

I have replaced machine, with a mile of pretty expensive pipe, to more machines, with either hooked to the tool pipe, or a lot shorter run, and much lower priced pipe. I think it serves my needs better. I still have a 2 HP Grizz with a home made cyclone, that serves my TS, Jointer, and Planer, which are by far my largest mess producers. I have 4 sided tower, and each tool is on a side with the collector on the 4th, so it's compact, efficient, and works fine for my needs. It was my wide belt sander, BS's, big router table, and some XYZ sanders that needed more, and this new Rikon came to me at $1,685 tax included. It has enough power to actually replace the Griz if need be, but I'll keep it on the other side of the shop, and use it for the wide belt, and BS primarily, but it is mobile, so that could change. IOW it could do an entire shop, with several tools at once. I like the trash bin that just unhooks, and rolls away a lot. This is something that I think many overlook, is what, and mostly HOW do I get the crap out of it, and too trash, compost, whatever. With the Rikon I can use regular trash bags inside the hopper, so it saves a ton of cash down the line, where you don't need to buy some special bags $$$$$$$$. 

Anyhow decide needs for you, and start a plan, but look at it from a to z on steps, and costs to them, is it fixed that is best, or mobile? Stuff like that.

I just hold my breath with the big chunks and filter the smaller ones through a cigarette.

I have a dust collector.   Next to it is an upright tub full of 2 1/4 long vacuum tubes, flexhose, etc ...  Shop made adapters and plugs right there in the wasted space under an Incra TS Ls. All in 1 place.

Separate 4" hoses for each tool. Router table, 2 for the Unisaw,drum sander and 1 for everything else.  With a shopvac cart closeby. I can vacuum everywhere in my basement shop.

I like having a shop fan with taped on filters running all the time the workshop is open.

GeorgeWest- the smaller Rikon is on clearance for $119.   I see it uses paper filters plus a cannister.  Assume this cannot use a Dust Deputy given the 4 inch tubing?  

Hairy - so are all your tools connected (with gates) or do you switch hoses at the dust collector?

No gates. Using the drum sander, use that hose, etc.

Hairy - so each piece of equipment has a hose, and you hook up the one you need at the dust collector?

This is a dissertation I wrote a while back when I went deeeeep into the rabbit whole that is dust collectors…long, but with some useful info. 
_______________________________

Confusion about dust collection is nothing new…and there’s a lot of partially correct information out there. The biggest point to understand is this: large impeller-type dust collectors (like you may think of as a classic DC) are designed to move large volumes of air, but at low pressure. This is great for clearing out dust in a larger area, like say under a cabinet saw. They excel at pulling dust out of the air, but may fall short of grabbing heavier debris like chips, especially if ducting is not properly sized or set up. ShopVac style units are designed for high pressure, but low volume. Their suction is most significant right near the end of the hose, and they do great at picking up chips….but since they don’t move much volume, they’re not so great at removing dust from the air in a larger space. Both machines have their place, but they need to be set up, ducted and deployed the way the manufacturer designed them to be used.

Where most dust collection falls short is exactly there: the system(s) aren’t being used the way the manufacturer designed them, so they don’t produce what you’re expecting. Large dust collectors need to be able to move that large volume of air without impedance in order to keep the dust and heavier debris airborne. This mean smooth, straight runs of properly sized ducting with minimal disruptions. That’s the only way to take advantage of the high volume and defeat the low pressure. So, using corrugated pipe or hose, sharp angles, reducing (or increasing!) duct diameter beyond what’s recommended, too long a run of duct, clogged filters, etc will all render those big DCs fairly useless. When you reduce the required duct size too much, the DC simply can’t move enough air to generate any pressure at all…so very little gets picked up: ie – necking 4” ducting from a traditional DC down to 1” for a palm sander.

On the other hand, shopvacs, with their much higher pressure, do a great job…at picking up what’s directly in front of them. But, because of their low volume, if the focused vacuum pressure (end of the hose) moves even a couple inches away, the pressure reduction is so massive that the system fails to perform. For these systems to effectively collect dust, some sort of confinement has to be built to help focus the airflow and direct the light dust towards the hose. This could be the internal construction of the shop tool itself (as is seen in some benchtop tools), or through sealing up leaky tool casings or cabinets and allowing fresh air to enter through a small opening at a point that puts the dust production between that opening and the end of the hose…which isn’t always an easy feat!

From a ducting or hose standpoint, a good rule of thumb is this: absent direction from the manufacturer for proper duct sizing, use duct the same size as the main inlet to the collector. A large DC with a single 6” intake most likely needs 6” main runs of duct to be efficient and work as advertised. A shop vac with a 2.5” or 2.25” intake is sized for that diameter duct or hose. From there, slight reductions may (or may not) be needed as the main runs of duct break off to spurs. At this point, you really should be talking to the manufacturer to get their help with proper sizing. They designed and built it, they know. I’ve had excellent conversations with the folks at Oneida Air. They’re very knowledgeable and helpful, even if you’re not buying from them and just have questions. 

The easiest way to negate the pitfalls of any system is to use the right sized ducting for the collector, and use it as it’s intended. As a basic rule of thumb, any shop tool with dust ports 2” or less needs a shop vac-style collector, and anything with dust ports 4” or greater needs a larger volume DC. The manufacturer of the shop tool in question (probably) designed the interior of the tool to be in alignment with the dust port size, and the proper type of collection device takes advantage of that design. 

There are a couple collectors that bridge that dust port sizing gap, the Oneida Supercell and the Record Power CamVac being two of them. These machines essentially combines two or three shop vac motors together to generate really, reallyhigh vacuum pressure, and also move a relatively large volume of air. It’s a somewhat niche machine class aimed at the small shop with a single woodworker, using machines with dust ports 4” or smaller, but it does what it does incredibly well. Truly awesome when used correctly.

I’d encourage you to look at your shop dust collection and mitigation as a whole. Look at what size and type of collector your machines were designed for and make decisions from there. Often, a small shop requires multiple, different dust collectors to be efficient which in itself is pretty inefficient…thus the niche DCs like the Supercell and CamVac. 

Also, remember that air filtration should also be part of your dust collecting plan. The relatively inexpensive ceiling mounted box-style air filters do a really good job at picking up the fine dust that a collector might miss. In a perfect world, you’d either have a couple air filter systems, or a filter system and a couple fans, set up to circulate the shop air in a race-track fashion. This added air movement keeps the dust airborne and directed to the filter, so it can be captured there. Ideally this filter would be in a place that draws the fine dust up and away from your workstation (especially something like a sanding station), as opposed to dragging the dust across your face on its way to a filter behind you. Alternatively, you can set your filter(s) up lower to the ground, so the dust doesn’t get pulled up past your face. This, of course, takes up precious space and so isn’t usually ideal. However you choose to set it up, just consider air movement and try to design it so the air is moving away from the main fine duct production areas. You’ll be amazed what a difference air filters make!

Blast gates and tool activated controls are a whole ‘nother topic. GRIT Automation is my choice, bar none…but you’d better be ready to lay out the cash for your hobby! Regardless, blast gates are a necessity if you’re using a stationary DC and a bunch of ducting. Isolate whole zones, and individual tools…or move a single hose, tool to tool. Much less fun, but cheaper!

Dust collection is an often misunderstood and overlooked part of a woodshop, but the health, safety and efficacy of a properly laid out and used dust collecting system cannot be overstated.