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Jim Jakosh
2458 posts
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More from Jim Jakosh
Fire Piston
This is a project that was inspired by Woodsman Woodworker. That was the first time I had ever heard of a fire piston so I had to watch the U-Tube videos.
This Fire Piston is made from Guayacan wood and I should have read about the wood first before trying what I did. It is an oily wood and it loads up sandpaper Right Now- even Abranet. I started by turning it and then knurling the head for a grip surface. That was like knurling greasy metal. It kept loading up so I finally gave up and left only one knurled ring. For the inside tube I used 1/2" copper stub ( like they show in one video) because it is closed off on the end. I turned an aluminum end for the piston shaft and cut the o-ring groove to make it tight. The ram cannot be pushed all the way to the end of the tube because it compresses the air so well. This is a good thing because the fire is started by the heat generated by compressing air- it gets to 800 degrees. This is the idea behind the Diesel engine!
In all the videos they talk about having some grease handy to lube the o-ring and I thought of Mads and his neat little grease boxes, but I have to smack the head so I could not put one with the sliding cover. I improvised with a couple PVC threads glued into the head. It makes a neat grease box that the cover threads on. I put a Buffalo Nickel in the end to make it unique.
I had tried it for a few days with no real success using dry paper towel and shavings- it would just get them brown but not lit on fire.. Everyone on line was talking about char cloth so I found out how to make some. My friend Tim ( the grill man) is always grilling so he heated the can of charcloth in his charcoal grill ( for 6 minutes with tin foil on top and a vent hole) and that made the difference. One smack of the ram and that cloth was lit and that stuff stays lit for quite a while if you blow on it.
I finished the fire piston with EEE and Shellawax.
The following is a U tube site that tells about how a fire piston is made. The materials can vary. You can just put fire piston in search field on the the U Tube site and you will get your choice of many videos on the subject.
This Fire Piston is made from Guayacan wood and I should have read about the wood first before trying what I did. It is an oily wood and it loads up sandpaper Right Now- even Abranet. I started by turning it and then knurling the head for a grip surface. That was like knurling greasy metal. It kept loading up so I finally gave up and left only one knurled ring. For the inside tube I used 1/2" copper stub ( like they show in one video) because it is closed off on the end. I turned an aluminum end for the piston shaft and cut the o-ring groove to make it tight. The ram cannot be pushed all the way to the end of the tube because it compresses the air so well. This is a good thing because the fire is started by the heat generated by compressing air- it gets to 800 degrees. This is the idea behind the Diesel engine!
In all the videos they talk about having some grease handy to lube the o-ring and I thought of Mads and his neat little grease boxes, but I have to smack the head so I could not put one with the sliding cover. I improvised with a couple PVC threads glued into the head. It makes a neat grease box that the cover threads on. I put a Buffalo Nickel in the end to make it unique.
I had tried it for a few days with no real success using dry paper towel and shavings- it would just get them brown but not lit on fire.. Everyone on line was talking about char cloth so I found out how to make some. My friend Tim ( the grill man) is always grilling so he heated the can of charcloth in his charcoal grill ( for 6 minutes with tin foil on top and a vent hole) and that made the difference. One smack of the ram and that cloth was lit and that stuff stays lit for quite a while if you blow on it.
I finished the fire piston with EEE and Shellawax.
The following is a U tube site that tells about how a fire piston is made. The materials can vary. You can just put fire piston in search field on the the U Tube site and you will get your choice of many videos on the subject.
Cheers, Jim ........................ Variety is the spice of life...............Learn something new every day
29 Comments
interesting jim, never heard of it either. so what does one do with a fire piston, other than a good conversation piece ?
working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.
Nicely done, Jim! Having the storage for the grease onboard is a good idea. Be neat if you could store the fire cloth, too.
May you have the day you deserve!
That's some good scouting type know-how, you just make it look really good Jim!
Personally I'd just carry a lighter or some matches, but just knowing the process is a big deal.
Personally I'd just carry a lighter or some matches, but just knowing the process is a big deal.
Interesting! I have some turning stock around here. Nice curly maple, or something.
The Other Steven
Well now that is unique! But you have numerous projects of things quite unique. It's certainly well made, looks like a really cool conversation piece for sure. The inlayed nickel is a neat feature, but the rest is an amazingly interesting work. You could put it in a "whats this" contest.
TimV, "The understanding eye sees the maker's fingerprints, they are evident in every detail, leave Fingerprints." James Krenov
Wow, I find this extremely interesting, maybe even more like phenomenal.
I was wondering about the char cloth, did you try this before heating it up in the grill?, or did it only work with pre-heated cloth?
Another thing I'm wondering is whether or not using that greasy Guayacan wood is advisable considering grease burns readily.
Nice work on this, your turning skill is superior for sure, to obtain this level of tolerance for such a tight fit.
Out of curiosity, did you measure the cylinder and calculate the volume? Diesel engines ignite the fuel with compression ratios in the 16 to 1 area. Looks like you're achieving this from what I can see in the photos.
In any event, very nicely done Jim, this is really unique and interesting.
PS: I just watched the making of char cloth on YT, this answers my question about pre-heating the cloth, turns out that is how it's made. Made the same way charcoal is made, burning with insufficient air to permit igniting into flames.
I was wondering about the char cloth, did you try this before heating it up in the grill?, or did it only work with pre-heated cloth?
Another thing I'm wondering is whether or not using that greasy Guayacan wood is advisable considering grease burns readily.
Nice work on this, your turning skill is superior for sure, to obtain this level of tolerance for such a tight fit.
Out of curiosity, did you measure the cylinder and calculate the volume? Diesel engines ignite the fuel with compression ratios in the 16 to 1 area. Looks like you're achieving this from what I can see in the photos.
In any event, very nicely done Jim, this is really unique and interesting.
PS: I just watched the making of char cloth on YT, this answers my question about pre-heating the cloth, turns out that is how it's made. Made the same way charcoal is made, burning with insufficient air to permit igniting into flames.
Interesting project. Never heard of one of these either.
Main Street to the Mountains
One of my early projects when I was first learning to turn and mill metal was a fire piston. Being metal, it was able to be smaller that the one you built…but not nearly as nice looking. It did have a screw-off cap on the end to store some char cloth. It worked well enough and I gave it to a friend of mine who was an avid backpacker. It’s got advantages to other fire started, or so I’m told. I’ll see if I can dig up some old pics of it, but not sure if I’ve got any. Great project! Nicely done.
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
Thank you for all the nice comments!! It is a great conversation piece and an actual working fire starter but you need the char cloth. I tried other materials and they never ignited like the char cloth which is half burned already!!
Hi Dave. If I made another one, I would put storage for the char cloth in the other end and have the grease too! good ideal!!
Hi Tom. The fire piston has a copper tube liner so the burning end never touches the wood. I used an aluminum tip on the rod so the fire did not burn the wood on that end. I have seen them made with a straight wood rod and it does get burned on the end. You have to dump out the burning cloth into tinder right away.
Hi Ryan. I'd like to see your metal one!! What kind of metal lathe and mill do you have? I like this site because you can post metal working projects as well as wood ones!!...and I have a lot of the old buddies from Lumberjocks here too!
Hi Dave. If I made another one, I would put storage for the char cloth in the other end and have the grease too! good ideal!!
Hi Tom. The fire piston has a copper tube liner so the burning end never touches the wood. I used an aluminum tip on the rod so the fire did not burn the wood on that end. I have seen them made with a straight wood rod and it does get burned on the end. You have to dump out the burning cloth into tinder right away.
Hi Ryan. I'd like to see your metal one!! What kind of metal lathe and mill do you have? I like this site because you can post metal working projects as well as wood ones!!...and I have a lot of the old buddies from Lumberjocks here too!
Cheers, Jim ........................ Variety is the spice of life...............Learn something new every day
Interesting project and like the narrative. Enjoy your range of projects and the skill you bring to them.
Ron
thanks for showing this Jim learn something new everyday if you have your eyes open GR8 JOB 😍😎👍
*TONY ** Denver * ALWAYS REMEMBER TO HAVE FUN
Jim, the one I made was steel and brass. I looked but couldn’t find any pics of it unfortunately. It was a good lathe project.
My metal lathe and mill are small, just benchtop models. A LMS 4190 mini mill and an LMS 5100 mini lathe (7”x16”). I’m n the small side, but with pretty good options and they get the job done if you take your time. I’d love to have an old Bridgeport knee mill and a larger lathe since they’d both be a bit more rigid than mine (obviously) but honestly I don’t need the size…and don’t have the room to store anything like that!!
My metal lathe and mill are small, just benchtop models. A LMS 4190 mini mill and an LMS 5100 mini lathe (7”x16”). I’m n the small side, but with pretty good options and they get the job done if you take your time. I’d love to have an old Bridgeport knee mill and a larger lathe since they’d both be a bit more rigid than mine (obviously) but honestly I don’t need the size…and don’t have the room to store anything like that!!
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
Thanks Ron and Tony!!.
Hi Ryan. I have never heard of the LMS brand. Where is is sold? You can do a lot with a 7 x16 Lathe!!
cheers, Jim
Hi Ryan. I have never heard of the LMS brand. Where is is sold? You can do a lot with a 7 x16 Lathe!!
cheers, Jim
Cheers, Jim ........................ Variety is the spice of life...............Learn something new every day
The company is called Little Machine Shop. I think they pretty much rebrand and have built-to-spec versions of other machines. Sieg and whatnot. They’re in Los Angeles so, short of buying machines that have to be by by freight, they’re quick to ship accessories and parts to me for n Nor Cal. Definitely a hobby shop/light workshop kind of vendor, but their stuff is better than low end chineseum…
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
That is sure great for you- being that close!! it is even better that it is not Chinese. My Nova lathe was made in PRC (Communist China) and the Smithy milling machine was also made in China somewhere.
Cheers, Jim ........................ Variety is the spice of life...............Learn something new every day
Some of those metal working tools are amazing knock-offs.
A buddy who runs a machine shop on campus has a "Rong-Fu" knee mill. The main casting is a dead copy of a Bridgeport, right down to the casting radii and other non-performance features. Only thing they did was to grind off the Bridgeport name and add "Rong-Fu" I'd wager that with a BP sitting right next to it, the rest of the parts would also match.
He says it's a good mill and about 1/3 the cost of the identical BP.
A buddy who runs a machine shop on campus has a "Rong-Fu" knee mill. The main casting is a dead copy of a Bridgeport, right down to the casting radii and other non-performance features. Only thing they did was to grind off the Bridgeport name and add "Rong-Fu" I'd wager that with a BP sitting right next to it, the rest of the parts would also match.
He says it's a good mill and about 1/3 the cost of the identical BP.
The LMS stuff might well be Chinese, but obviously there are different levels of ‘Chinese’. Anyway, for my small shop and meager needs the LMS stuff is pretty damn good!
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
Hi Bruce. At Steelcase we had a Millport that was the spitting image of a Bridgeport. I'll bet it was a Chinese copy. My friend Brian bought it when they replaced it with a CNC mill and it still worked very well! The Chinese mill I have is a Smithy- the people that sold the combo mill / lathe machine in Popular Mechanics. It had metric lead screws and they tried to approximate English thousandths on the hand wheel. I complained to the company out of Washington that it was not accurate and that I did not want to return it but I could make it accurate for $250, They sent me the $250 and I bought Bridgeport lead screws and hand wheels from a local machine tool company and put them in with a little machining of the nuts on Brian's mill and it is very accurate now.
Hi Ryan,
I might just look into an LMS metal lathe for our Arizona shop! I have making brass , nylon and aluminum parts for people down there on the Harbor Freight wood lathe with a 3 jaw chuck that I put a 1"-8 thread in the back. It makes parts that work but no where near as accurate as I could be on the metal lathe.
Hi Ryan,
I might just look into an LMS metal lathe for our Arizona shop! I have making brass , nylon and aluminum parts for people down there on the Harbor Freight wood lathe with a 3 jaw chuck that I put a 1"-8 thread in the back. It makes parts that work but no where near as accurate as I could be on the metal lathe.
Cheers, Jim ........................ Variety is the spice of life...............Learn something new every day
Jim, if they’re of interest to you, the shop is in SoCal and fright is pretty damn expensive…but they’ve got free local pickup…so you could swing out of your way while headed down to AZ and save some pretty good money!
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
I will look into the price and think about it. I'd have to plan it with a trip to Yuma. We come from Michigan and go to Yuma to walk into Mexico at Algadones. I could not find a 7x14 LMS Mini lathe. I did see a Velvor. Do you have a link to their products? What thread is on the spindle? Can you chase threads on the LMS. I did not see that option on the Velvor.
Cheers, Jim ........................ Variety is the spice of life...............Learn something new every day
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