Bad name for the title, but my thought is this is the place to park thoughts, questions, observations about all things glue, and sticky stuff for all of our woodworking projects.
Most of us are familiar with Franklin, a Columbus Ohio company who makes a LOT of the glue used in woodworking. They have miles of info about their products, actually too much sometimes, and this could lead to confusion. Confusion about which glue to use? Once you decide on a glue for the characteristics you want, How the heck do I use this stuff, How much pressure is required? Temperature? How long till it's "cured"?
I'll start with my Gump about Franklin, is why do more then 75% of their links, at least for me result in a Danger Danger thing popping up from my Anti Virus software. So I say ok I'll accept the risk, and click that button, then my freeeking web browser goes off Danger Danger.....
You would think a company would be able to figure out how to make a link that worked. I'm about to revert to just Elmer's, and using hide glue NOT from Franklin, just to say up yours doods. Well actually I am past that, and have bought a supply of both. Doing a bunch of reading on the subject while I was recovering from a host of issues I had a while back. I've found a lot of info saying TB III comes in third after Ape Glue, and Elmers E7010 Carpenters Wood Glue, and both of them come in after a lot of epoxies, which I had already started using for tough jobs.
So info about them seems to be easily available online, and I have yet to get a Danger Danger thing from anyone except Franklin.
Another thing I wanted to throw out there is the "old" info about needed pounds of pressure for glue to work? I had it in my mind, I think from Franklin, that you needed 150 pounds of pressure for it to do anything, and this is why we all rushed out to buy Parallel head clamps costing a LOT of money so we could get a good crush going with our up to 1500 pounds of pressure clamps, so they could earn their keep.
Hell I have made several boxes and all I used for a clamp was blue painters tape. Pretty strong, but the key thing is the glue did it's thing.
Granted these are smaller projects, but why didn't tape get higher honors all those years ago?
I'm thinking a lot more important than pressure is how well the pieces to be glued mate to each other. So Approximation, is it the key? I do know I have been shooting more edges than I used to, and it seems to be a huge part of it. Tight going in, = tight going out.
Ok another wonderment. End grain, we all know it can be difficult. If end grain, and glue is part of the equation, are you feeling some openness in the end grain to allow the glue to flow in, makes for a better join? Or are you thinking that if you shoot, sand, or burnish that end grain so it looks more like edge grain, that this works better?
I have started making 2 of everything, and am doing one each way. I don't have any machines that check strength, or meters to measure, but you can get a sense of whats working better.
Over 50 years ago I grew up thinking you just accepted it was weaker, and didn't really do anything to try to change that. Now we see videos where a guy suggests it to be a strong joint. WHOKNEW?
What's wrong with a fresh thread? The fact that a long-dead thread exists with no activity for 10 months means George can't offer up new comments? That's dumb. In fact, even though I was following that defunct thread, I had completely forgotten it existed.
Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner
Thanks for posting, George. Your thread is timely for me since I feel Alex Snodgrass answered the age-old question once and for all during his last visit: Do you spread glue on both surfaces, or just one?
Since Alex is sponsored by Titebond, I figure he has access to the experts there. According to him, they recommend glue on one surface only. The way I think about it, as long as the joint isn't starved and you clamp before the glue skins over, it shouldn't matter.
Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner
I probably posted this on the previous glue thread but I am not a fan of TB 1, 2 and 3 but I actually like their liquid hide glue. I've not tried any of their specialty glues because I have not had a need for them. I've had much better luck with Elmer's wood glue but it is getting harder and harder to find. Every one of the small bottles of TB I have bought have gone bad before their 2 year shelf life according to the code dates. On the other hand, the gallon of Elmer's I bought 10 years ago is still usable, though I noticed when I poured the last bit into my Fastcap Gluebot that its viscosity was definitely thicker than it used to be. Too bad that no one seems to carry it around here anymore.
--Nathan, TX. Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.
ive heard that before that elmers lasts a lot longer. i just dumped about a 1/4 of a gallon of tb2 that got way too thick to use. ill check my wood supplier and see if they stock it. if he does ill let you know and i can ship to you if you want. ive always been a devout titebond user.
working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.
Uh… am I the only one who thins TBII with water? I’ve gone as thin as 2 parts water to 1 part glue. This page says you should only add 5% water at a time, then mix thoroughly, but I just dump it together and mix it up (the magnetic stirrer makes short work of mixing it). And if it gets too thick in the GlüBot, I just add a little water, shake it up good, and set it back in the bench for mañana. Easy-peasy.
I’ve done well with TBII, but I don’t buy large supplies of it. I am a big fan of epoxy, and use it pretty regularly for certain things, but usually not wood joints. I actually really like JB Weld’s two part epoxy. Seems to not be very touchy when it comes to getting the quantities right.
What I don’t have any experience with is hide glue. I know it’s reversible, but given the advances in adhesives from the hay day of hide glue, why use it now? I mean, are folks reversing hide glue all that often?
As for required pressure, I’ve got no idea. I just make sure I’ve got a consistent thin coat of glue covering the whole mating surface on both sides, wiping away a thin strip along the edges with my finger, then apply clamp pressure until I get just a little squeeze out all along the seam. I saw a video one time explaining how clamp pressure is distributed along a seam. Basically, the pressure is applied between the clamp faces, out to 45° on each side. That means the further away from the seam the clamp face is, the wider the applied pressure area is. It takes a bit more clamp pressure to get the same application, but it helps me with clamp spacing. Using squeeze out as my guide, the 45° rule seems to be accurate!
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
Sorry Larry. A lot of last year was just a blur. I was here, kinda, but between drugs for all of the illnesses, and issues I was zombified. Plus pain messes with ya, and I had a lot of that. I was thinking what does this place need. My best thought was a glue thread.
On spreading I am a one side only, and do a sort of rub joint action which actually puts it on both, but a lot of peeps would watch me put on glue, and wonder if I was a cheeeepazz. I am frugal with the glue, yes maybe I am. But I really dislike glue cleanup, and I think Norm must have about sanded the grain off all his stuff, cause wiping with a wet rag always got me into huge problems when I finished, especially if stain or dye was part of it. My $0.02 on wet rag wiping glue is it just smears the really stick crap into any grain on the wood, and when it dries it blocks finish from penetrating at all, so you get those glue skid marks all over the place, Nasty diapers those are.
If he comes here as someone else I have to apologize upfront. That James King guy from You Tube. Kings fine woodworking. I almost used to gag when he was putting on glue. Both sides are double the amount I use easily on any one side, cause I'd spread it to the other. Glue would just gush out when he put 2 boards together. I'm pretty sure he had a lot of Franklin stock. :-)
I can say I haven't ever had issue with glue ups coming apart. I have had a tacked on part or two pop off, but rather than a huge blob sitting there I take a chance, but like a tabletop glue up, panels, no problemo. But I understand a lot of that is stock prep before the glue comes out. That approximation thing again.
Hopefully that one doesn't mess with anyone's computer.
I remember now I think I posted a pic of my jugs turned over to keep air out.
I know for a fact I had some Elmers that was at least 2 or 3 years old, and it was fine. Doing so much less woodworking these days I should either just go all hide, or buy PVA in smaller containers. Hell I used to use at least a gallon a week, more on most.
I'm with you on not going for a lot of the "specialty" glue. Prefit everything before glue up is usually enough, but plan the exercise out, and know if you are biting off more than you can chew, and do it in a few stages if you are. So quick, long, maybe later, I don't need those. I just want glue, sometimes one for outdoor use, but glue.
My jug type glue storage is a 2 x 12 about 18" long, and I drill 2, sometimes 3 holes 1 1/2" or so, and just put the tops into the holes. Keeps the air from getting under those leaky caps. Because they are leaky ya really need to torque them down, or you could puddle up. I've not had a leakage issue. Seems to keep the glue looking a lot like it did when I first opened it, no snot stringers and such. My Elmers lasts forever like this, after a while even upside down the Titebond gets thick. Maybe 18 months or so.
Ryan, for me anyhow I use Hide glue because it is reversible, without totally F-ing up what work you already have done.
At the end of the day it's pretty cheap, does require some maintenance if you are using a pot, which I like. But it will be useable for a longer time, and when it is right your open time is pretty good.
I understand the PVA's and Epoxies all have a ton of science in them, while Hide has only had that one advance. However since back in the 1700's when some Farmer who didn't know how to spell or write was taking dead animals/fish and turning them into adhesive, well there has been a ton of science added to the manufactured Hide product we have today. So it isn't "that" hide glue we are talking about, it's a perfectly made product from the lac bugs, but the processing it has had done to it, well there is a lot written about it. Plus "that" hide glue had a really good lifespan, and a lot of stuff made by the better full time shops has aged very well.
I do advocate for the use of GERMAN made, machine made only. I too have some wonderment about the Indian made stuff that again, some dood who can't read or write, making my glue products. I guess that has me coming down hard on illiterate folks, just saying they aren't scientists. Doods in Germany are.
