So, I’ve done a fair amount of research on this, and I understand what the internet says, but I’m hoping some of you have real-life experience with this as I’m having a hard time separating truth from advertising …
I want to build in some noise reduction into the walls and ceiling of the shop. This is two fold: reduce the noise that gets out to the neighbors, and reduce the noise that gets into the house through the ceiling of the shop. I’m not interested in R value or thermal control. This is just for noise abatement.
The internet says double walls with an air gap between them, Rockwool Safe n Sound insulation, with doubled Sheetrock mounted on decoupling resilience channels on the outsides of the walls. Double walls separate the wall diaphragms from each other. Double Sheetrock adds mass to the wall which absorbs sound, and resilience channels remove the physical attachment btwn the Sheetrock and the studs, thus reducing vibration transfer. Add noise reducing caulking around the edges to seal it all up. The Rockwool deadens airborne noise that makes it through the wall diaphragms. Easy peasy…and expensive, but that’s what all the companies selling noise proofing pitch…as I said before, truth vs advertising.
Does anyone have any real world experience with this? I’m particularly interested in how different regular fiberglass insulation is compared to Rockwool. 1/2” vs 5/8” Sheetrock, etc. Again, I understand the theoretical advantages, but I’m looking for how much any of it makes a real difference.
Thanks in advance!
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
No experience yet but I have been thinking about building a closet for my Supercell, which is my biggest noise generator, so that I can concentrate the soundproofing on a smaller space. It will need some powered ventilation to send the heat it generates outside but I figure that will also help with the sound levels and heat build up inside the shop too.
--Nathan, TX. Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.
The only real world info I can offer is from working on noise reduction in printers - double walls, mass, and reducing airborne sound with foam were the tricks. Often we went with mass alone just for cost, but double walls are really effective.
Rockwool was around forever before fiberglass, very dense. My detached garage/shop has it and it does help a bit versus fiberglass.
You can buy acoustic panels (think music studio) but that is $$$ as well.
My guess is the best bang for the buck would be the extra isolated layer of sheet rock. comparatively Easy enough to slap up versus tearing out everything to get at the insulation which in my experience only can provide minimal effect.
The walls are open, so I can do whatever I’d like. I’m also looking at potentially metal studs around the dc and compressor to wall them in and separate them from the room.
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
If you can put a second set of studs in between the existing ones you can get a double wall without significant loss of space. The second set is not structural so you can just notch them for wiring and plumbing. You don't need much gap.
at the company i worked for we sold Roxul which is a product of Rockwool. it is made from volcanic lava. one demonstration they showed us was the guy put a load siren inside a box lined with roxul closed the lid and you could just barely here it. and it was ear piercing loud ! also fire resistant. if your walls are open it would be easy to install. the insulation alone would kill most of your noise issues.
working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.
Sharing Bruce's experience with Rockwool, been around a long time, that in itself is an endorsement. Any so so product in that vein tends to fall by the wayside as newer, better, higher preforming products come out.
A friend did some work on his basement shop to abate the sounds going up, he just used Rockwool and his Wife was very pleased with the result so he stopped there. He did his ceiling, had planned to also do the walls thinking the sound would follow up them, and get to the house above. In the end he never did stage 2.
On my shop I have standard insulation in the 2x4 walls R 15, and R 10 wallboard outside under the siding, and R 60 of blown in fiberglass in the ceiling. I also have the luxury of an detached building on several acres of land, with closest neighbors house at 100 yards. I can work 24/7 and nobody ever hears machines running. For that matter the closest neighbors are also the youngest, and frequently come in late. Seeing the lights on in the shop Jason called me to let me know.. I didn't hear the phone between machinery running, and hearing protection. I did note it when I got done a few minutes later, and called him back. I asked if he just got in, and he said yeah. So he was outside, and still didn't hear anything. Not sure there if it's distance, or just standard insulation numbers for a building today?
Awhile back I was working on a renovation at Lincoln Center. Of the the rooms they wanted sound proofing they used a sheet rock with a thin metal layer in it. I looked it up back then and it was a lot for one sheet. I wanted to sound proof as much as I could for my son's room when he was a baby. The ceiling is theramafiber insulation then 3/4 plywood then 5/8 sheetrock on the ceiling. It does a good job at stopping noise coming from above the room.
Thanks for the input. I’ve looked at staggered studs, but it appears 25g steel studs at 24oc is even better and cheaper. Since it’s non-load bearing, it doesn’t matter. Then rockwool, then resilience channels and prob 5/8” drywall. This is just for the compressor/DC cabinet. The rest of the walls I’ll prob just do with fiberglass and resilience channels, then 1/2” drywall to close them off. I’m thinking rockwool and 5/8” for the ceiling, also on resilience channels.
The problem with decoupling using resilience channels (which, by all accounts is arguably the largest vibration based sound reducer)is it means you can’t hang things off the walls…unless you back it with 1/2” ply first I suppose.
I’ve got time. Still collecting info.
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
I don’t have any firsthand experience but I can tell you that having a double wall with air gap between will make a difference. We did recently use sound absorbing panels at work to make an enclosure for testing lovomotive horns and it did a phenomenal job. But not cheap at all.
I was talking to one of the guy's that were working on the music room. They were caulking around receptacles and any other space there was a gap. They had to eliminate as much air flow as possible. They said the air carries the sound. This was a long time ago things changed since then
My last remodel job, before I retired, was a $200,000.00 remodel of an 80 year old farm house. The house was several miles outside of Tinino, Washington. The owners lived in New York. They, basically, said, "fix it" and left me a LOT of free reign on how that came to be. Months into the project, the flew out, concerned about the time it was taking. They went back home happy.
I flooded their email with photos and detailed invoices. They had all the minute details of the granite window sills, 8' deep French drain (12" drain pipe with wells). The saw the interior and exterior of the entire back wall torn into. They saw the kitchen one architect said couldn't be done, but which the second said was perfect (open beam ceiling). After their visit, they said, keep playing. . . .
On that kitchen, I played a lot. Like much of the rest of the house, I took it back down to framing. Then I sheathed it and covered that with Tyvec. I followed the rules about taping every cut and tear with specialty tape designed for Tyvec, to stop air movement.
Meanwhile, true to my rabbit trail inclinations, I started diving deep into sound control. Partially, I went down certain sound roads because of inspiration born of stupidity of a former boss, who didn't even bother packing the gaps around newly installed windows with insulation, or non-expanding foam, making it possible to carry on normal conversations between people inside and outside the house.
The rabbit trails reminded me sound was air movement (rarefaction and compressions of air waves), so stopping air movement meant stopping sound.
I couldn't put the vacuum of space in the walls, but there were other things I could do. Some on my own dime (labor wise), because I wanted to know.
Just having the walls sheathed and Tyvec covered went a long ways to sound control via stopping air movement. On a whim, and because I bought my good quality caulk by the case anyway, I spent several hours caulking (with foam backer, when needed) everything on the inside of the open walls that it appeared could contribute to air infiltration.
Yeah, when I goof off, I REALLY goof off.
Interestingly, I was working alone one day and hadn't turned the radio on (thought I'd actually see what kind of strange things were being rambled about in my head). I was working in the kitchen, where I had installed three windows and a French door. It was REALLY quiet. HOWEVER, I opened the French door to toss something on the deck and was met with a raging storm I did not know was going on.
Now, imagine adding carefully laid insulation and sheet rock to those walls. I'd be well on the way to soundproofing the house from the wild outdoors.
This got me even more interested in sound proofing. For example, the farm house was to become a remote (in the woods) office and meeting place for a large land conservation trust (great way to convert your secluded acreage into a peaceful retreat you could actually get government grants to improve).
That meant bathrooms accessible to visitors were needed. Because I hate most architects ability to think about businesses customers and privacy when it comes to commercial bathrooms (doors that open on to urinals, etc.), I wanted cover the ____sses of visitors. I actually added a tread plate to the bottom of the bathroom door. I gave the exhaust another intake option, other than from under the standard, large gap bathroom door.
I did the extra sheet rock thing too. That is, adding mass, so the wall to the hallway off the main hall did not as readily act like a speaker diaphragm when someone who had, earlier, left Taco Bell to tend a meeting at the trust headquarters used the facilities.
In the end, sealing against air movement was the one, biggest improvement to that old 2,500 square foot, single story farm house, whether by way of Tyveck, caulk, spray foam, sheet rock or good tread plates. That's because walls can't transfer sound if they don't, first, get hit with air to turn them into speaker cones (or what have you's).
Good stuff, thanks! One thing I keep finding in my research is about caulking the edges and using putty pads around boxes. If you surface mount the boxes, that’s not an issue, but at least backfilling routing holes with spray foam and the like. Most of what I’ve read revolves around adding mass, so that track as well…thanks for the input! If anyone else has any, I’m all ears…
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
Mass helps reduce the higher frequencies and double wall to isolate the lows. One trick is to provide vent holes (upper sill plate into attic) so when the noisy side wall vibrates, the movement of air in the wall is allowed to escape up versus transferring to the outer wall.
Question for the collective: Is this a right hand or left hand spiral on this hose? My assumption is right handed. I order some right hand bridged hose clamps but now I am second guessing my choice.
--Nathan, TX. Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.
