Lets Talk "oil finishes"

Man, what a broad subject. Are you talking stains, top coats, a combination of both? Polyurethane or varnish or BLO?

Most of my projects these days are functional furniture and cabinets. I use a variety of oil stains on most woods but have begun relying more on dyes to get a deeper luster to the wood. Since everything has to be functional, I have gone to Valspar conversion varnish applied with an air assisted airless. The CV has good UV protection, is non-yellowing, and almost impervious to common household chemicals.

I’ve recently started using Saicos Hardwax Oil. It’s a very easy to use, extremely durable, and easily repaired surface. I haven’t much experience with it yet but I’m pretty impressed so far.
I’d be interested to hear anyone else’s experiences with it.

I like to use BLO, 2-3 coats, then followed by Tung oil. When all is dry maybe some wax. Takes a long time but then I am usually not in a hurry. I try not to use stain because I very easily can make a total mess of it.
I like the organicness of oil, whether or not it is better for you than other finishes.

We use MinWax Antique Oil. We use it because, unlike BLO and most oil finishes, it doesn’t expand as it dries. It’s incredibly aggravating to find a few thousand dollars worth of finished items ruined by small checks at the end of every exposed medullary ray. To test for expansion during drying just pour a small amount of finish in a dish and let it dry over night. If it wrinkles up, it’s an expanding finish. Look for one that dries smooth as glass.

We also want our finishes to be relatively permeable. Our products are designed to reach equilibrium as quickly as possible when relative humidity changes. We’re far more concerned about shape stability in our products than actual dimensional stability. We want to get core moisture content equal to surface moisture content as quickly as possible. MinWax Antique Oil allows for this very well yet still offers surface protection from hand oils and other grime.

Oil finishes in general are mostly cosmetic, but I like Danish oil type finishes because they have resins in them which does provide some protection while the oil brings out the color of the wood and leaves a natural looking grain, buts with some luster. It is easy to apply and to maintain, requiring just a good cleaning and new coat occasionally (it can be years in between). You can also make your own easily enough from oil, poly and white spirit using 1/3 of each ingredient, although I haven’t done this myself yet.

I like danish oil. I often cover it with poly as well. But there is nothing like the instant beautiful you get from danish oil.

lwllms,
I was delighted to see your post. I have oftened talked about the expansion of wood due to oil finishes. While most have not noticed or attributed distortion due to seasonal changes, I agree oil finishes can distort wood. It seems the slower drying the worse it is , due to penetration I would assume.
In doing research I used about every type of oil I could get, from the BLO, hard wax , Danish, Walnut ,etc.
We tested the oils on glass, this showed us if they yellowed, and how they dried . It was quite interesting, it dispelled the notion that oils add color to wood, not the case. Very few had enough color to be of any effect unless like a danish oil a colorant was added.
It became quite evident that rather than adding color the oils reacted with the natural tannins in the wood, and the slower it dried the more reaction.
This is one of the reasons that BLO is highly popular for “popping” grain". It dries slow . One interesting thing we did find was that the same BLO that was 3 years old dried much faster and more throughly than a new can . It is my opinion that driers are being added rather than an actual boiling process (polimerzation), I came to this conclusion by adding Japan drier to raw linseed oil and it reacted and dried about the same .
As most know many of the oils are varnish oils, which is a blend of oils, resins and driers, we found these to be the best, in both dry time and durability .
The Minwax Antique oil, was one that did well, as well as their wipe on poly, General Finishes Arm R Seal, Formbys Tung Oil, ( not really tung) , Waterlox (yellows) , all did well. The new System Three Marine Spar Varnish ( excellent but expensive) .
There were others, but I like a nice close to the wood oil finish, but doing this for a living it has to dry quickly and be very durable, clients do not want to “renew” .

I thought this a good subject to get this finishing forum rolling .. I am also impressed with the basis of knowledge we have here.

That’s a great topic. Thanks Charles.

I can’t claim to know much a bout oil and finishes in general.
I have been reading about outdoor finishes a little and I am still confused. I am hoping one of you can expand on outdoor finishes /oils
Marine spar varnish seems to come up high on list. But depending who is writing they all have different experiences that contradict the other writer.
So what is the best outdoor finish that:
-Does not need to be refreshed every year,
-Protect from the elements (rain, sun etc…)
-Protect against UV
-Does not require a degree in finishing to apply
-Is not too dangerous to handle.

I dont claim to be an expert on exterior finishes, but I have tested a couple that have proved thus far to do well.. one is called One Time, its an oil based product, and the second is the System Three Marine Spar varnish. I used it on 10 white oak deck chairs that are sitting outside in Vermont, it s only been 8 months on them but they look like new. The one time I put it on some old treated plywood, it still looks good . I much prefer a oil or penetrating product over a film finish, because they are easier to renew and dont peel or flake.. Just my experience and opinion, I feel sure others have other experiences.
I have also often used exterior paint untinted, it then becomes a water base clear coating , I have also used General finishes, Exterior 450 , and thus far 2 years no issue .

Now days for the home, I really like composits and vinyl …HA HA ( not really , im a wood guy)

Thanks Charles.

I have read the same on untinted paint. I am curious and will probably give that a try.

I remember a long term test comparison with various types of other outdoor finishes in an article in Fine Woodworking mag. They found marine varnishes with UV protection to be the best, most long lasting outdoor finish. I am personally against any type of film finish for the outdoors for the reasons stated by Charles. I have used a outdoor film varnish with Tung oil which is very popular here in Norway ‘Benar olje’. It looks wonderful for two or three years on outside doors, but you have to sand to renew and that is not fun, especially because of it being more elastic than indoor film finishes so that the sand paper becomes clogged very easy.

Is cabot timber oil any good. Sorry I don’t want to highjack the thread…

lanwater ..I don’t know I have never used it

so I’m a bit worried now. I have a few sketches in my notebook of a table I want to build. It’s a sort of “maxi sofa table” so not too deep about 50 cm wide and 120 long. It’ll have three elm planks framed in mahogany, ….mahogany, elm, mahogany, elm, mahogany, elm, mahogany. I want to “frame” the elm. The two outside mahogany strips will be about a quarter the width of the elm boards (110mm), the two inner mahogany about a centimeter wide. The ends will be mahogany breadboards as wide as the elm and the whole thing sits on a mahogany leg frame.

All the mahogany has been reclaimed from an old church and remilled into boards. The elm is also very old and dry.

I was going to finish it with BLO and many coats of shellac…Am I going to have wood explosions? Should I consider poly instead?

Excellent topic, thanks Charles for bringing it up, and thanks everyone for the great, informative replies. Helps a newbie like me!
I like DO for its simplicity and the fact that I can put a few coats of wipe on poly on top if I want a bit more durability. Similar to this, I’ve been using Minwax “tung oil” recently, it seems to have a bit more warmth to it than the traditional DO.
I use BLO on stuff that I don’t mind recoating eg. tool handles, workbench etc. I don’t like the yellow tinge it imparts, so I haven’t used it too often for “finer” projects.

IMO, the only reason to treat a piece of wood with oil is to make it appear that it hasn’t been treated, while emphasizing the grain. And even that effect can be achieved by manipulating a resin finish in application.

CWS, I agree we can take that subject up next.. Its would be a good discussion I think, however when you refer to a resin finish , many of these oils are just that ,. they have resins in them particulary the varnish oils .

Wolf and Rabbit.. no your not going to explode the piece, however I would suggest a good varnish oil, it will be absorbed and dry well.Not sure what you have available in your part of the world, I would not use BLO,, A good varnish oil would do well, do you have minwax poly oil, or Formbys. If you can list some of the oil products you have available , we may be able to get you in the right direction, I would only use the shellac as a sealer if your looking to top coat. Shellac while good for projects that will not recieve hard use, is not ,in my opinion a good choice for a table top that will see use.

Charles, my comments relate to BLO, real tung oil, and those products using “Oil” on the label, which form no or minimal film on curing. Rather than split hairs, I’ll limit my reference to urethane and alkyd based resin finishes that often if not usually include drying oils in the formulas, but cure to a measurable film.

As an aside, I think it unethical for the finish manufacturers who cater to the DIY/hobbyist market to withhold product formulations and deceive by name (Danish Oil for instance) and false labeling.

I think the name Danish oil probably derives from the use of this type finish by the Danish furniture industry. They produce a lot of nice quality furniture there and the ‘natural’ look most of their products have has been popular for many years and continues to be so even today. I think they realized early on that they needed a more durable finish than just oil imparts and I suppose that is why they settled on the oil/poly, linseed oil or tung oil/spirit combo.

Whilst this post was started some time ago, one can quite easily refer to these topics much later in time.
There are a huge range of coatings, from natural, modified to fully synthetic. It is always good to know of the options and the pros and cons of as many products as you can, that way one has the choice. If unsure of a product, it is always good to do your own tests and samples. Often, there is no one product that will suit all projects.
If using a product that comes in direct contact with food, or little mouths, then one should really ensure that it is certified food safe or safe for toys. At the very least, one should know the actual ingredients of products. That way, you can make an informed choice.
Natural oils such as Livos (and there are a number on the market) are vapour permeable and allow the timber to move, this ensures no edge bonding. Being penetration oils, one can quiet easily repair and rejuvenate a surface without the need to sand back. The clear oils highlight and intensify the actually colour of the timber one is working with. Containing natural resin, waxes and oil, it is an easy process to buff the dry coat to flatten he wax crystals in the oil and so achieve a glossier look.
In the majority of cases, one wants to highlight the natural colour of the timber that is being worked with. However at times the piece of timber may have yellow tones that intensify with the finish. Here, one can use a white pigmented oil to keep it in its original sanded look. There a many options, it all depends on the outcome and personal preference that is to be achieved.
As to external oils, the darker the stain, the better the UV protection. For external surfaces, it is important to know the maintenance regime as it is no use obtaining a product that will last many years but then needs to be resanded to recoat. Again, external penetrating oils come in natural and synthetic. Synthetic oils often leave a layer that shows uneven wear and tear whereas penetrating pigmented ones, fade off evenly. This generally just requires a clean of the surface and reapply another coat as upkeep. Of course the more natural a product is, confirmed by knowing the full ingredients, then the less contamination the surrounding environment will receive from any runoff.